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	<title>Comments on: Creating invariance in IT</title>
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	<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/</link>
	<description>We put the sci in sci-fi</description>
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		<title>By: Neurdon &#187; Time as a teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1625</link>
		<dc:creator>Neurdon &#187; Time as a teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1625</guid>
		<description>[...] Another guest editor here&#8230; I met Max at this year&#8217;s ICCNS and he suggested writing a guest entry for Neurdon. The ideas hopefully compliment some of the stuff Ethan blogged about. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Another guest editor here&#8230; I met Max at this year&#8217;s ICCNS and he suggested writing a guest entry for Neurdon. The ideas hopefully compliment some of the stuff Ethan blogged about. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Massimiliano Versace</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>Massimiliano Versace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>Hi Derek, 

sounds really interesting....yes, please, go ahead and prepare a post... figures will be helpful!

Max</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Derek, </p>
<p>sounds really interesting&#8230;.yes, please, go ahead and prepare a post&#8230; figures will be helpful!</p>
<p>Max</p>
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		<title>By: Derek James</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1135</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1135</guid>
		<description>Are any of you going to be at the IJCNN next week? I&#039;m presenting a paper there where I talk about my model. 

It&#039;s a bit too long to go into much detail in a blog comment, but the basic idea is that the model is hierarchical, with standard forward connections and also delay lines between layers. Representations are formed by the conjunctive activity of current and delayed activation from units in lower layers, effectively binding past and present activity at a higher level in the hierarchy. The successive firing of the units in the lower layer, closely followed by the firing of the unit in the higher layer strengthens the weights between them, effectively recruiting the higher-level unit to represent the conjunction.

This probably isn&#039;t very clear from the brief description. Max, you had mentioned possibly contributing a guest entry. If you like I can try to put something together after the IJCNN. Just let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are any of you going to be at the IJCNN next week? I&#8217;m presenting a paper there where I talk about my model. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit too long to go into much detail in a blog comment, but the basic idea is that the model is hierarchical, with standard forward connections and also delay lines between layers. Representations are formed by the conjunctive activity of current and delayed activation from units in lower layers, effectively binding past and present activity at a higher level in the hierarchy. The successive firing of the units in the lower layer, closely followed by the firing of the unit in the higher layer strengthens the weights between them, effectively recruiting the higher-level unit to represent the conjunction.</p>
<p>This probably isn&#8217;t very clear from the brief description. Max, you had mentioned possibly contributing a guest entry. If you like I can try to put something together after the IJCNN. Just let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Neurdon &#187; What IT does</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1119</link>
		<dc:creator>Neurdon &#187; What IT does</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1119</guid>
		<description>[...] to Ethan, you&#8217;re starting to make this whole enterprise a little less incestuous! Anyway, your recent post raises a number of interesting issues regarding inferotemporal cortex (IT), most prominently: how [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Ethan, you&#8217;re starting to make this whole enterprise a little less incestuous! Anyway, your recent post raises a number of interesting issues regarding inferotemporal cortex (IT), most prominently: how [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Massimiliano Versace</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1116</link>
		<dc:creator>Massimiliano Versace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1116</guid>
		<description>Hi Derek, good to hear from you!.... now, I want to know more about what you do. In particular, learning invariant object representation (or ANY pattern, from what I am concerned) via spiking dynamics and STDP is something I am craving to know more about...how does your simulation approach differ from Jeff&#039;s and DiCarlo&#039;s?

Max</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Derek, good to hear from you!&#8230;. now, I want to know more about what you do. In particular, learning invariant object representation (or ANY pattern, from what I am concerned) via spiking dynamics and STDP is something I am craving to know more about&#8230;how does your simulation approach differ from Jeff&#8217;s and DiCarlo&#8217;s?</p>
<p>Max</p>
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		<title>By: Derek James</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1077</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1077</guid>
		<description>Cool post. I&#039;m a PhD student in Cognitive Science at The University of Louisiana at Lafayette. Ethan, were you at ICCNS? If so, too bad we didn&#039;t get a chance to chat. My dissertation work centers around this very topic, a hierarchical spiking neural network model that learns sequences in an unsupervised manner using STDP and the temporal structure of the input to learn representations. I found DiCarlo&#039;s talk at ICCNS very interesting, having read the Cox et al. 2005 paper but not being aware of the Li and DiCarlo work from last year.

And hello Max. Too bad we couldn&#039;t get a game together at the conference. I believe George and Hawkins refer to the clustering stages you&#039;re talking about as &quot;temporal pooling&quot;. I read through George&#039;s dissertation, but for me there was a significant gap between how the model was learning invariant representations and how biological neurons might implement similar algorithms. Luckily this provided motivation for my dissertation work. 

As for the swap paradigm used in both the human and monkey studies, I was wondering how well a paradigm would work that involved a subject observing a moving object where the image is swapped periodically (ideally only for a short time period, possibly such that they can&#039;t subjectively notice the swap) as the subject tracks the stimuli moving across a field. Similar experiments could also be done by swapping while rotating or swapping while increasing and/or decreasing the size of the stimulus. Has the swap paradigm been used in this way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool post. I&#8217;m a PhD student in Cognitive Science at The University of Louisiana at Lafayette. Ethan, were you at ICCNS? If so, too bad we didn&#8217;t get a chance to chat. My dissertation work centers around this very topic, a hierarchical spiking neural network model that learns sequences in an unsupervised manner using STDP and the temporal structure of the input to learn representations. I found DiCarlo&#8217;s talk at ICCNS very interesting, having read the Cox et al. 2005 paper but not being aware of the Li and DiCarlo work from last year.</p>
<p>And hello Max. Too bad we couldn&#8217;t get a game together at the conference. I believe George and Hawkins refer to the clustering stages you&#8217;re talking about as &#8220;temporal pooling&#8221;. I read through George&#8217;s dissertation, but for me there was a significant gap between how the model was learning invariant representations and how biological neurons might implement similar algorithms. Luckily this provided motivation for my dissertation work. </p>
<p>As for the swap paradigm used in both the human and monkey studies, I was wondering how well a paradigm would work that involved a subject observing a moving object where the image is swapped periodically (ideally only for a short time period, possibly such that they can&#8217;t subjectively notice the swap) as the subject tracks the stimuli moving across a field. Similar experiments could also be done by swapping while rotating or swapping while increasing and/or decreasing the size of the stimulus. Has the swap paradigm been used in this way?</p>
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		<title>By: Massimiliano Versace</title>
		<link>http://www.neurdon.com/2009/06/04/creating-invariance-in-it/comment-page-1/#comment-1074</link>
		<dc:creator>Massimiliano Versace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neurdon.com/?p=686#comment-1074</guid>
		<description>Nice post. Question: what is the main difference of your lab&#039;s modeling approach to Jeff Hawkins&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.numenta.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Numenta &lt;/a&gt; platform? It seems that temporal contiguity as a teaching signal is a common theme, but, while sitting with Jeff during his visit two years ago in our Department, I learned that there are various &quot;clustering&quot; stages that are performed both in space and time to achieve invariance. Thanks!

Max Versace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. Question: what is the main difference of your lab&#8217;s modeling approach to Jeff Hawkins&#8217;s <a href="http://www.numenta.com/" rel="nofollow">Numenta </a> platform? It seems that temporal contiguity as a teaching signal is a common theme, but, while sitting with Jeff during his visit two years ago in our Department, I learned that there are various &#8220;clustering&#8221; stages that are performed both in space and time to achieve invariance. Thanks!</p>
<p>Max Versace</p>
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